A Conversation with Elder Raven Wing (Lorelei Hawkins): What Does Being Two-Spirited Mean to You?

Elder Raven Wing (Lorelei Hawkins) works in Vancouver’s Downtown Eastside, mostly out of RayCam Co-operative Centre, supporting the Indigenous community and passing on her wealth of knowledge. A Medicine Woman, artist, and a Two-Spirited Elder, Raven Wing sat down with the YWCA Metro Vancouver staff at our community and resource centre in the Downtown Eastside, YWCA Crabtree Corner, to pass on knowledge about her life and being Two-Spirited.

On June 20th, 2023, Elder Raven Wing kindly provided us with her truth and her experiences. The following is some of her personal history that she shared in her own words and her answers to questions about being Two-Spirited (Twin Spirited):

"In the early 50s, I was one of the children that was taken away and then put out for adoption. I was moved from Kamloops to Okanagan and went through twenty-two foster homes. I was moved every three-and-a-half weeks as a form of hiding me from my family and community and people that would have kept track of me.

I was raised mainstream, along with my birth brother who I kept physically with me and realizes how lucky he was. You were separated from your family members otherwise you would keep your identity and your languages and your culture. It was to keep you separated so nobody could give you information to find yourself.

When I was growing up I knew I was a bit different. Even my colouring was a bit different. I was told I was Black Irish. At conferences, we’ve spoken about that, with humour. There are so many Native children that were told that they were Black Irish or something very similar. Almost all of them are from long-term foster care or adopted. It was to make sure that I grew up mainstream, so I’d become mainstream and it didn’t work on me."

What Nations do you identify as being from?

Ani'-Yun-wiya / Secwépemc / Syilx; Sang ashore to - Səlilwətaɬ;

Skwxwú7mesh LixumixW; Cherokee/ Shuswap/ Okanagan

Do you identify as Two-Spirited? 

Yes, I do.

What does being Two-Spirited mean to you? 

Two-Spirited is the term that we use, meaning we have two spirits.

And for a while it was sort of being used and equated to Indigenous gay men, but it was actually given to the Indigenous community meaning we have both male and female spirit within us, so I use it.

Did you always identify as Two-Spirited? 

It’s something I grew into. I’ve always known that I’m very masculine even though I’m in a female body. So how I try and explain it to people is that I was born a woman...so genetically I am a woman, but my persona, my being is very masculine. So, I always tell people that I am one of the boys, that I’m a dude. As I’ve aged, the more I’ve progressed into, “I’m a dude”.”

My background is from a mix of Tribal Nations and there has always been the teachings of up to eight genders.

Is Two-Spirited a correct term and is there a thorough understanding of its meaning? 

I think the community has been learning about what it means from our perspective of using that term. It’s not an original term because every tribal Nation will have its own name or word that was applied. When we started using the term Two-Spirited, it was documented and gifted to the Indigenous community, so it was actually used within the Indigenous community, for Indigenous people to claim identity.

I think the most important thing is that we (Two-Spirited people) have always been within our communities and the difference before was that it was not equated with sexual preference. So, for me as a medicine woman and a teacher of the wheels, you can go around your wheel more than once and your sexual preference can change as you go around your wheel.

For me being Twin Spirited – being two – I am always gonna be who I am and that equates to my sexual preference, or in my case equates to that I’m celibate by choice. I’m just frozen (laughs). So, I’m a good example to be able to share and teach it, because most people equate it with being in tune with being gay, and that’s not necessarily so.

Is being Two-Spirited associated with sexual orientation? 

Some people do, but it could be seen as gender. It’s to do with, not just how you were born, but you as a person and how you equate yourself as a person. What your gender is. It’s more than your chemical makeup. For me, like I’ve always said, I was born in a woman’s body. I’m sometimes a lady, but that takes a lot of work for me. Some people have a really hard time [understanding], because if I’m coming to something and you want me to be a ‘lady’ or ‘ladylike’ then I will come in drag. They don’t quite get it. Mentally and emotionally, I have to take that on to become a woman, but the rest of the time, I’m a dude.

Please tell me more about the role of Two-Spirited people within your culture

The Medicine People in our backgrounds, from our tribal Nations, in most cases were Twin Spirited. They were both male and female, and lived and did the thinking process of both male and female.

For myself, being Twin Spirited, it was almost a natural progression.

I had a story of my name and I think it helped me retain who I was. The fact that I was perceived as being a little girl and raised in a mainstream culture where little girls were supposed to be feminine – not to disrespect anybody – but being a dude, being a guy, the perception of being a Tomboy was like … they very much wanted to take that out of you. It was like “We’ll raise you, you’ll learn your etiquette, you must behave in a certain way". Even to the point of how you were going to be perceived, how you were going to act, how you were going to get married and your lifestyle and everything. As you can probably tell, I didn’t do any of that. I’ve always been who I am. I’ve always been this way. I’ve always taken on what I need to take on.

I was growing up as an artist so that was kind of my release. I could put things in either poetry or stories or into pictures to explain what was going on, when I couldn’t use words because people weren’t about to listen to what I had to say anyways. In a lot of cases in the early 50s and 60s, even if they heard it, they didn’t take the time to grasp the understanding of it.

What knowledge would you pass down to younger generations about being Two-Spirited? 

I’ve always said, and I will continue to say, that my children have a right to be who they are and what they are. My children have the right to love whoever they fall in love with because unless you’re really controlled or controlling you’re not going to pick and choose who you fall in love with. The same as when you choose to be born  – we have a belief that our children are born to us as mothers because they bring us some knowledge base and themselves as a gift. I truly believe that if you are growing up in an environment – and in the old days it was an environment, that was safe – then you got to be who you are and what you are. People could self-identify and it was seen as a positive, not a negative. Not something to be debated or even questioned, it was just who they are

Do you think there is enough awareness around being Two-Spirited and people being able to be who they are? 

I’m not quite sure. There’s a huge debate about gender, which is limiting.

When I’m identifying, I’m identifying more than just my chemical makeup. My identity, my environmental assessment, my psychological profiling … if you want to get into that whole realm, that’s more on a male side. So, this idea that you’re taking a whole person and just equating them with how they’re born, either male or female, kind of throws me because you’ve left out anybody who is mixed. Whether identified or not identified. Then you leave out everybody else, for example, in the old days, there was a strong belief in reincarnation, and also other mixes.

The environment plays a role. I’m not just talking about the home and the family environment; I’m talking about the wider environment. Also, the spiritual being, I guess what some people would call a soul. We’re more than just a body. Our traits, personalities, development, our mental and emotional well-being...that doesn’t get counted. Personally, I find it quite limiting in what I consider all-rounded knowledge.

I have a saying “If you’re going to get to know me look here,” [points at eyes]. Look inside and see who I am. Don’t just look at the shell. The shell is just the shell, it’s just the body. It’s the mental, the emotional, the spiritual, whatever word you want to use, along with the physical, that creates who I am as a being. And I think to go any less than that, you are limiting yourself and you are limiting that person.

What are your pronouns? 

I don’t use any pronouns. I’m fine with anything. Same with names. Some people call me by different names and I will still respond to them. It’s not my job to always correct people and make them feel belittled in any way. I want to lift people up. The other reason I don’t do pronouns is because there are so many different languages, and pronouns that are very masculine or feminine are only in certain languages. So, it’s also out of respect for meeting people where they’re at.

How can an organization like the YWCA Metro Vancouver create more awareness around what it means to be Two-Spirited?

I think just doing what they’re doing. Having dialogue circles. Within the Indigenous community; have a place that is safe where we can talk with each other, where questions can be asked and trusting that the person is speaking from their truth. A place where people are allowed to be who they are and what they are in a safe environment. Having more spaces and places to do that would be great.